Oral history
History witnesses

Norbert Lampert

Interlocutor name:
Interlocutor surname:
Magdalena Wójcik
Piotr Boruszkowski
Catalogue number:
Recording date:
22nd April 2013
Recording location:
Recording duration:
Recording language:
Recording copyright:
POLIN Museum of the History of the Polish Jews
Holocaust Survivors


Emigration, False documents, Warsaw Ghetto, World War II, Ghetto uprising, Jewish tradition, Granting the Righteous title, Commemoration.

Related places

Interlocutor biogram

Norbert Lampert was born in 1935 in an assimilated Jewish family in Warsaw. He grew up in an apartment at 54 Wspólna Street, his father was the administrator of the building at 4A Nalewki Street. Norbert’s uncle emigrated to Palestine. With the outbreak of World War II, his father and uncle fled to Vilnius and later to Kaunas. Together with his mother and grandparents, he finds himself in the Warsaw Ghetto. With increasing deportation actions, they move to Nalewki 28 Street, which housed a repair shop for Wehrmacht uniforms. The interviewee’s mother decides to leave the ghetto. The escape to the Aryan side is possible thanks to the help of Zygmunt Laskowski, who takes Norbert and his mother to his apartment on Mokotowska Street. They move to a hideout flat on Aleja 3-maja. Norbert's mother is ill and goes to St. John's Hospital. Norbert visits his mother at the hospital - it is the last time he sees her. His mother decides to return to the ghetto - she cannot stand the psychological pressure of life on the Aryan side. She dies during an attempt to enter the ghetto. The interviewee stays with Władysława Schultz, who manages to obtain a false birth certificate in the name of Leszek Gołębiowski. Władysława Schultz decides to leave Warsaw and together with Norbert moves to the Malinówka estate. They stay there until the end of the war. In 1946 Norbert Lampert and his uncle go to Germany, and in 1949 to Israel. In 1972 Norbert Lampert graduates from the Haifa University of Technology.

Recording circumstances description

 Interview recorded in the POLIN Museum of the History of Polish Jews.

Recording summary

  1. The interviewee’s place of birth; 00:00:00
  2. The post-war fate of the interviewee; The Jewish Committee - father in Shanghai, arrival of the interviewee’s uncle from Palestine and departure to Germany in 1946; 00:01:00
  3. The interviewee thanks his rescuers; 00:05:30
  4. Establishing contact with Mrs. Schultz - the rescuer; awarding the Rescuer with the title of Righteous Among the Nations; awarding the title to Zygmunt Laskowski; 00:07:00
  5. The interviewee's reflections on the attitude of the Polish society during the Holocaust; 00:08:50
  6. Information on the interviewee’s family; grandparents, parents; 00:11:00
  7. The interviewee's childhood in an apartment at 54 Wspólna Street in Warsaw; the outbreak of World War II; 00:13:34
  8. The interviewee's family's attitude towards Jewish religion and tradition; Polish language used at home; celebrating Jewish holidays with the grandparents; 00:14:40
  9. Professional work of the interviewee's father in the interwar period - administer of the building at 2A Nalewki Street; 00:16:50
  10. The brothers of the interviewee’s mother: education, professional work and political views; commercial activities of the interviewee’s uncle; emigration of the uncle to Palestine; 00:17:30
  11. The interviewee’s memories from the occupation period: father’s and uncle's escape to Kaunas; living with the grandparents from his mother's side; meeting a guard from the Saxon Garden - the interviewee's reluctance to “people in uniforms”; 00:20:10
  12. Closure of the ghetto and relocation of the grandparents living in Nalewki Street; the interviewee's stay in a kindergarten in the ghetto; 00:25:00
  13. Everyday life in the ghetto as remembered by the interviewee: homelessness, begging for bread, corpses lying in the streets; living conditions of the interviewee's family; 00:26:50
  14. Grandmother's disease and surgery in the apartment; 00:31:00
  15. Awareness of the scale of the Holocaust in 1942; 00:34:00
  16. The deportation operation in 1942: the interviewee's childhood games - cutting out permits from coloured paper; the interviewee’s family moves to the workshop at 28 Nalewki Street, which deals with the repair of military uniforms; 00:36:00
  17. Protection measures against round-ups and deportation: locking the apartment by the caretaker with a padlock from the outside, hiding in cellars; 00:40:00
  18. Atmosphere of tension and expectation - child's perspective; 00:46:10
  19. The decision of the interviewee's mother to leave the ghetto: contact with Zygmunt Laskowski who lives at 19/21 Mokotowska Street, plans to escape to Lithuania; 00:48:30
  20. Leaving for the Aryan side: bribing the guards; 00:52:30
  21. Meeting a blackmailer after leaving the ghetto, buyout and reception by Zygmunt Laskowski; 00:54:40
  22. Location of Zygmunt Laskowski's apartment and moving the interviewee and his mother to Irena Tomaszewska's apartment in Żoliborz; 00:58:00
  23. Preparation of the interlocutor - a 7-year-old child - to live on the Aryan side: teaching him Catholic religion; 01:00:00
  24. Moving to the apartment on AL. 3-go Maja; the illness of the interviewee's mother, leaving the apartment and moving to St. John's Hospital to be with the mother; the interviewee’s stay in different apartments; 01:02:00
  25. The interviewee's visit to the hospital - last contact of the interviewee and his mother; mother's decision to return to the ghetto - motivated by the psychological costs of living on the Aryan side; detention of the interviewee's mother during an attempt to enter the ghetto; 01:05:00
  26. Commemorating the mother at the cemetery in Warsaw, a plaque with the inscription “She died at the gateway to the Warsaw Ghetto in 1942”; 01:10:00
  27. The interviewee's stay at Władysława Schultz: producing a false birth certificate in the name of Leszek Gołębiowski, place of birth: Lida; 01:11:10
  28. Władysława Schultz: education, professional life, family; room rented by W. Schultz at 50 Chmielna Street; 01:12:00
  29. The reality of hiding: the awareness of Władysława Schultz’s sister and son; the bombing of Warsaw; 01:14:30
  30. The outbreak of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising: round-ups on the Aryan side; 01:17:30
  31. Władysława Schultz's decision to leave Warsaw and move to the Malinówka estate; 01:18:00
  32. Relations between the workers and the estate owner - hiding Jewish identity by the interviewee; 01:20:00
  33. The interviewee’s illness and fear of visiting a doctor: “I was ill, but my pants were still pants”; seeing a doctor in Ostrów Mazowiecka; 01:00:00
  34. Autumn 1944 - arrival of the front and withdrawal of the estate workers with the retreating German army; 01:24:30
  35. Geographical proximity of the Malinówka estate to Małkinia and Treblinka; awareness of the local population about the transports directed to Treblinka; exploitation of the situation by the local population; smell of burnt bodies; 01:26:30
  36. Liberation by the Red Army and return to Małkinia; columns equipped with hoes on their way to search for gold in Treblinka; 01:31:50
  37. Return to Warsaw and living in a room rented at Saska Kępa; Władysława Schultz’s occupation; 01:34:20
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